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geraldjust
July 10th, 2012, 22:57
i just recently uncovered this wonderful website! i knew that custom maps existed, but i never knew were to start.

do you guys know were i can lean the basics ? what would be better to start of with cod4 or 5?
i already have the modtools installed on both but im just confused on were to start and how to compile my first map and test it.

i can see myself spending multiple hours here so might as well get to know this community :):cheers:

ChuBBz
July 17th, 2012, 17:18
Welcome

there is plenty of help available here, check the tutorials and dont be afraid to ask questions, no matter how simple.

Youtube has some very useful tuts to follow to get you started.

I map for COD4, so depending on which route you go down, check the relevant area of this site.

Chubbz

{BHF}Dirk
July 17th, 2012, 20:28
Hey GeraldJust,

Welcome to codutility!!! Here are a few links that really helped when I was getting started.

http://wiki.modsrepository.com/index.php/Call_of_Duty_4:_mapping_mp - (Great Wiki that gets you going on the basics, right up to advanced)

Also as mentioned before, check out BlackjackJohnny on YouTube as his videos are a great resource. A bit on the advanced side, but you won't regret having them later. I believe he mostly maps for COD:WAW, but the 2 radiants are very close.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tie7j890IOQ&feature=channel&list=UL

Cheers,

Dirk

Steve
July 18th, 2012, 06:32
Hey GeraldJust,

Welcome to codutility!!! Here are a few links that really helped when I was getting started.

http://wiki.modsrepository.com/index.php/Call_of_Duty_4:_mapping_mp - (Great Wiki that gets you going on the basics, right up to advanced)

Also as mentioned before, check out BlackjackJohnny on YouTube as his videos are a great resource. A bit on the advanced side, but you won't regret having them later. I believe he mostly maps for COD:WAW, but the 2 radiants are very close.



Cheers,

Dirk


His videos are found at http://wiki.modsrepository.com/index.php/Call_of_Duty_5:_Video_Mapping_Tutorials to be precise. :cheers:

I have known and worked with Jonny for quite some time now and he is really the master of making it "Understandable" both visually and verbally.

MelVin
July 20th, 2012, 22:01
Welcome Gerald,

Like Chubbz said there are lot of tutorials here at the site and we are the "no question is a stupid question" type guys. so ask away. almost everything I know about mapping I learned from this site, this is definitely a one stop shop for all things modding. For blckJackJohnny's Tut's here's the straight link to his YouTube channel...http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackJackJonnyy?feature=watch
(http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackJackJonnyy?feature=watch)
My suggestion would be to just start playing with the tools and post back, often. lots of people here will help you without doubt and you'll be on your way in no time flat. Best of luck and don't forget the most important thing... HAVE FUN:D

geraldjust
July 21st, 2012, 11:26
all right! i saw his videos before, and i know some of the basics. But if ever wanted to test my map what are the minimums? (cod4), for scripting files.

MelVin
July 21st, 2012, 22:52
your map will need a .gsc (raw/maps/mp/mp_mapname.gsc) and a zone_source/mp_mapname.csv

The gsc will get you going and can be used for all the code in the map. the csv file tells the compiling process what will need to be included in the map for it to work. Hope this gets you started ask if you need more specifics:)

geraldjust
July 25th, 2012, 15:57
thanks! one more question. If i want to add moving doors elevators or like death barriers, or stuff like that i add it to the .gsc? thanks again!

MelVin
July 25th, 2012, 22:53
it can be added to the main gsc , or put into it's own gsc and called into the main gsc file. Look at some of the stock gsc files. they should give you an idea of how they have done it. hope this helps:)

geraldjust
July 26th, 2012, 23:49
awesome! well does anyone know what language this scripting resembles to? c java like? netcode? ,


ohh btw did anyone read mark rubins tweet? he said that they can not make mod tools for mw3 because of the strong anticheat. but that hes working with cod4 community members to bring mw3 assets to cod4 mod tools. any thoughts?

CaptCom
July 27th, 2012, 07:15
If its true, having the MW3 assets available for CoD4 would be awesome.

Also, if dev. could do that for MW2 ( to CoD4 ) and Black Ops ( to CoD5 ) it would help
PC gamers and mappers to continue to play/work with CoD4 and CoD5.

But like I said... if its true... Those guys are expert liars...

As for not providing the mapping tools because of the " strong anticheat " :mdr2: :mdr2: :mdr2:
this is the joke of the day.... MW2 and MW3 are the most hacked/cheated games of the CoD series.


...hes working with cod4 community members to bring mw3 assets to cod4 mod tools. any thoughts?

Yeah lollll... Codutility is one of the largest mappers/modders community for CoD.... Since 2003 we've never been contacted in any manner by the devs/studios.

And remember, this guy is from IW ( con$ole addict ), the creators of IWNet... those who nailed PC Gamers/Mappers/Modders for the first time in the CoD history.

HolyMoly
July 27th, 2012, 10:36
...hes working with cod4 community members to bring mw3 assets to cod4 mod tools. any thoughts?

Since when does devs care about a 4-5 year old PC game. If there is no money in it, they could give a :censored-232335:

VeeTee
July 27th, 2012, 13:01
There's more reasons than the "anti-cheat" to not release mod tools. And to add... A LOT of IW devs play on PC.

Gunner
July 27th, 2012, 16:11
I have to agree. Wont believe anything till I see it released. I've gotten tired of being told this and that and then nothing. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t91/ronco8/crybaby.gif

geraldjust
July 28th, 2012, 01:26
well these are his tweets
https://twitter.com/IWMarkRubin/status/221272119802212352
https://twitter.com/IWMarkRubin/status/221272371313647618

w (https://twitter.com/IWMarkRubin/status/221272119802212352)ell as far as ive seen there is only one other community trying to tackle the mw2 game:
http://fourdeltaone.net/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=88f4f9249b7315dffca253fe922c7efc
(http://fourdeltaone.net/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=88f4f9249b7315dffca253fe922c7efc)
any thoughts on these guys' work? well sweet. well cod4 with a gtx460 makes it look just as good as mw2 for me lol.

MelVin
July 28th, 2012, 03:05
@VT
agree, also think if they release assets for mw1 then it kind of negates the need for tools to some degree, would generate a lot of new ideas.

Personally I'm not sure how much this would change things. People already import models and things as they need them. It would be a lot more convenient though.
I don't see them pointing out they are testing thing just for fun, doesn't mean it will work out. I'll wait and see what happens.

Steve
July 28th, 2012, 10:42
There is only one real reason why the tools have not been available for the last couple of releases..........Give me a D.....Give me a L......Give me a C.......

geraldjust
July 28th, 2012, 11:10
yup yup! well i dont thinks its IW or even treyach. Its activision and there money hungriness lol

VeeTee
July 28th, 2012, 15:30
There is only one real reason why the tools have not been available for the last couple of releases..........Give me a D.....Give me a L......Give me a C.......

Pure speculation.

On another note,

It would be cool if the MW3 assets were ported over for CoD4, it really would be. However, the complexity of actually releasing mod tools for MW2/MW3 just doesn't make it feasible.

MelVin
July 28th, 2012, 20:39
Regardless of how you look at it tools and DLC are directly related. Not enough man power/ not enough monetary incentive, conflict with deadlines etc etc... doesn't matter. the COD games have made so much money that the personnel or additional funding needed is there or atleast can be obtained. No matter how you look at it , it boils down to money in the end, does Activi think the 'Juice is worth the squeeze'. That said, it's their game, they don't want tools bad enough they don't have to release them.

Do you think level designers or character modellers know what goes on at corporate? From the understanding I was given from Activi, there is a process of Green lighting things they either get approved or they don't at the CORPORATE level. Hence what Gerald said holds some weight. Just to be clear this is not some "hater" speak nor is it some wannabe insider fanboy speak. Take your like or dislike out of the picture and I'm sure you can see what I'm saying.


the complexity of actually releasing mod tools for MW2/MW3 just doesn't make it feasible. This is pure speculation as well. The only thing we know for sure is that the bottom line is a huge part in any decision made by any company. Anything beyond the dollar values is pure speculation.

geraldjust
July 28th, 2012, 21:58
yup! its all about money. these guys at http://fourdeltaone.net (http://fourdeltaone.net/) were fixing mw2, they made a good anticheat(fixing the broken game), dedicated servers, mods, new game modes, theather mode for mw2, new mp maps (ports from sp maps) and more stuff and activision send them a cease and desist letter forcing them to stop. Because there project will damage its users. this was in 2012. i still think that activision cares about its bottom line even on this broken game. Even tough its cost 19.00 dollars (the same as cod4)...

VeeTee
July 29th, 2012, 04:35
Not everyone is drawn by greed and it's truly sickening how the PC Mod community portrays devs and publishers. Why would they give something to a community that hates them anyway.

DRUMBUM
July 29th, 2012, 04:39
DLC being directly related to modding tools is like comparing apples to oranges - Its easy to jump to conclusions when all you have as a source is the internet and trust me you shouldn't believe everything you read and make assumptions from it!...my 2 cents

Steve
July 29th, 2012, 07:29
Pure speculation.

...However, the complexity of actually releasing mod tools for MW2/MW3 just doesn't make it feasible.

Yeah it is speculation of course but speculation tempered in reality to some degree. How much money has Activision made in the past few years? Billions correct?

If making and releasing a map builder program like Radiant is so complex then why not take the interest made from that amount of money in a split second to hire and pay a person or two to develop the tool full time? I dont think Activision will go broke from spending that money. To be honest though, we wont see any more support like that ever from them. DLC has their share-holders living the good life. It all comes down to money and we, as mappers, are our own worst enemy. The studios use to use us for keeping the interest in their games and they also used our love of interest to hire new staff for themselves. Now they have what they need and since a good number still map with the old tools they can still see what new talent is upcoming for them to snatch up. Vicious Circle and one that we wont ever win if you consider winning = New Mapping Tools.

Steve
July 29th, 2012, 07:33
Not everyone is drawn by greed and it's truly sickening how the PC Mod community portrays devs and publishers. Why would they give something to a community that hates them anyway.

What?

That is a pretty broad paintbrush you are using these days......

The Community doesnt hate them we just feel shat upon because of the years of support and development that we provided freely to them while they were still growing their studios and the Call of Duty franchise. You know, the old days.....

paulus95
July 29th, 2012, 08:32
This discussion is never gonna end :rolleyes:
Like drumbum said I think it is more than only money. Games are much more complex than 10 years ago.
It is not easy to make a map editor for dummy's and it must fit in the game.
Don't make your conclusions if you don't know it.
Maybe there is another (bigger) reason we don't know.

Mr. Krinkle
July 29th, 2012, 16:46
as a mapper, i would happily pay for the mapping tools, if the companies would produce mapping tools for the market i would be in the front of the line! it would be a blast to map for these new cod games.

HolyMoly
July 29th, 2012, 17:12
The tools are not as complex as one would think............. The engine is the same, thus the tools should be close to or exactly the same. They have a blue print from cod4,cod2 and WaW. They are just giving empty excuses not to give them out.....CAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT! They just plain don't want to. The hacking excuse is B.S. because we already have a decompiler for MW3 so what's the difference, we already have the code! PC is not a money maker for them, so why bother. I just don't see why everyone can't see that MONEY is what makes or breaks these guys! The devs try to humble us with gossip about releasing tools, assets, etc.......... It's all :censored-232335:, plain and simple.

VeeTee
July 29th, 2012, 17:18
The tools are not as complex as one would think............. The engine is the same, thus the tools should be close to or exactly the same. They have a blue print from cod4,cod2 and WaW. They are just giving empty excuses not to give them out.....CAUSE THERE IS NO MONEY IN IT! They just plain don't want to. The hacking excuse is B.S. because we already have a decompiler for MW3 so what's the difference, we already have the code! PC is not a money maker for them, so why bother. I just don't see why everyone can't see that MONEY is what makes or breaks these guys! The devs try to humble us with gossip about releasing tools, assets, etc.......... It's all :censored-232335:, plain and simple.

Shit like this just makes me laugh. Until you have actually seen the tools or dealt with them you have no reason to state how complex they may or may not be.

snypir
July 29th, 2012, 17:58
This thread is getting way off topic...

Long story short, you probably won't get mapping tools for a COD title again. Money or technological difficulties, doesn't matter. The hatred for Activision/IW/Treyarch not giving us mapping tools won't go away. They've lied (remember Bowlings comments...) or half-truthed or tried to distract us with other BS too many times for us to trust what comes from them.

The future call of duty franchise titles will not be well received in the MOD community without the ability to MOD them. MODs include custom maps.

Again, this is a mapping community, so don't expect us to give two shits about a game we can't map for. And to all the DEVs who take the hate personally, I'm sorry you think its personal because its not. Its business. We do not want to spend $100 on a game and play the same 20 maps. But thank god you have all the console players forking over $15 for 4 maps, you won't even miss our business. Your DEVs might miss us, since some of them come from this community, but since they're not in charge of anything, their say in it doesn't matter much.

BU|D-ToX
July 29th, 2012, 18:13
I'm not saying it's money, it could very well be. However I truly think it's the the rate at which they crank out these games that is the bigger cause. They are basically on a 2 year dev cycle which is pretty rough. Once a dev team finishes one game, they basically need to get started right away on the next. I guess in a round about way you could tie it too money but in terms of putting new product on the market on a yearly basis. If they were on a longer dev cycle then I bet you'd see tools purely for the purpose of keeping folks engaged in their initial product. As it is now though, with a new version out every year and sales records continually being broken, there simply isn't the need.

I agree with HolyMoly on the the "complexity" of the tools being a BS excuse. At least in terms of IW's installments. If you've ever looked through the gsc's for either you can see how similar the coding is. As a matter of fact, the earliest work a rounds we found for MW3 server limitations were based on buried COD4 dvars. As for the maps, rip a COD4 map and then a MW2 or MW3 map. Little or nothing is different on that level. So I think it's a fair assumption based on experiences gained with COD4 tools and looking deeper into the MW2 and MW3 backbone, that not a ton has changed there.

The same can't be said for Black Ops IMO. Their texture rendering was much different as the other COD's mentioned. Rip a Black Ops map...it looks interesting to say the least, and yet they tried to release something, as imperfect as it was.

Steve
July 29th, 2012, 19:49
Shit like this just makes me laugh. Until you have actually seen the tools or dealt with them you have no reason to state how complex they may or may not be.

Condescending.

MelVin
July 29th, 2012, 20:14
Not everyone is drawn by greed and it's truly sickening how the PC Mod community portrays devs and publishers. Why would they give something to a community that hates them anyway.

This is ridiculous, nobody hates the Devs and nobody mentioned greed. Money and greed are 2 different things lol

DRUMBUM
July 29th, 2012, 20:22
Cant we all just get along :(

IDK about you guys but I always got ticked when new tools would come out and all the bugs with it, I mean yeah new tools are perfect and a dream with every title but the fact that they are looking into converting all the MW3 assets to COD4 toolset really excites me as it should everyone. Cod4 mod tools are probably the best as far as stability and that is them going out of their way to do something for the community because they do listen. It ultimately is the closest and best thing to actual MW3 mod tools. The engine isn't the same for a number of reasons so it isnt as simple as copy and paste radiant for a new game like some people might think. I also agree with TOX that if the studios had more time- it might be something more feasible to do- but converting the assets for MW3...im into it

geraldjust
July 29th, 2012, 21:43
well i did not mean to start this debate i guess, just wanted to hear your guys opinion on mark rubins tweet. well yea! i have yet to still uncover all cod4 for pc has to offer! so in the meanwhile i will get lost around here reading.

it would be nice if they did what they say, but somewhere someone said no on the decision for modtools. so sux i guess. cod4 is still the funnest game of all the series,but it would be cool it it could be updated.

MelVin
July 29th, 2012, 22:37
@ Drum I agree and you make a good point the assets are a big deal I hope they do release them.

@VT after a 2nd read, maybe it's not ridiculous but more not were I'm coming from after all I can't speak for others, so that's my bad

@gerald
No worries discussions are good. I hope people keep talking about things but this thread has been heavily hijacked. Anytime tools come up this seems to happen.

It all comes down to passion about something everyone really likes, that's a good thing for cod imho.